The Wilbur Smith Discussion Forums

Matbow, I see that you come from Boston --- now there is a real bastion of liberalism. I seem to recall reading somewhere that you are not a natural born American and I don't know if you have become naturalized or are just living here. Possibly you should visit the midwest sometime although I realize it is flyover country and doesn't really matter. But many people here think differently than they do in Boston.

john rogers, you should have listened to your grandmother

I noticed that only two of the respondents here are Americans ----- interesting.

Nefer, I do not believe that I referred to Fox News as a "bastion" of truth. Rather I said that they are the only ones who are reporting on Fast and Furious and the Benghazi debacle.

annagram wrote:perhaps American politics should be left to the Americans - we have been doing a very good job for over two hundred years!!!!

If we were talking about Switzerland, Ireland or any other "neutral" country then I would agree, but the USA has such an impact on the rest of the world that I think it's only natural that the citizens of other countries show an interest and have opinions on the current US election. The outcome of this election will have repercussions on the world economy, international conflict and the environment.

At the same time, these people (me included) do need to realize that the USA isn't their country and that, on average, the USA is a more conservative and traditional society. It's the USA's right to elect whoever they chose and if 50% of Americans agree with Romney on his stance on taxes/healthcare then who are we to criticize something that has no impact on us whatsoever?

As for me; I'm British but I have lived in the USA (Boston) for 4 years and will most probably be spending a good proportion of my life here given I'm marrying an American citizen next year. I would love to visit the mid-west to experience the less liberal attitude there and see how that influences my opinion on things. At the moment my political beliefs don't align with any party/politician (in the UK or USA) - I'm very much a capitalist, a proponent of free trade and avoiding welfare that encourages people not to work, but at the same time I'm totally for a fully Nationalized health service (not the shambles that is Obamacare) and I am in favor of policies that crack down on pollution and environmental waste. And yes, I am aware that these things are pretty contradictory and no politician in his or her right mind could achieve them all!

As was mentioned earlier about Obama simply being a puppet - I do wonder if both candidates truly believe 100% of what they are promising or whether they have to add in an extra 10% of party rhetoric to tow the official line and get the vote of the more extreme registered voters; Romney did after all sign a health care law in Massachusetts similar to Obamacare, which he will now seek to repeal if he is elected. Interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Women

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/arts-and-ente ... ights.html
http://www.cbc.ca/m/rich/news/world/sto ... rally.html

Just a few Canadian (non-biased) links.

In the end we may have to simply disagree on the Rep's stance on women's rights.

This Presidental election is so different than the Presidental race in 2008,Barack Obama vs George Bush.At this time four years ago,Obama mania was sweeping the US and the rest of the world.Every movie star and famous celebrity were dancing in the streets carrying the Obama banner.Oprah Winfrey campaigned and used her television show to promote Barack Obama as the second coming of Christ.TV commercials saturated the airwaves with Americas most influential people supporting Obama. Where are they now,have not heard a peep out of Oprah this time around.Barack Obama is on his own this time around without the fanfare and celebrity status to back him up,this is a different ballgame.Whatever the final outcome of the election may be,making the right decision of Presidental choice is crucial for the US and the rest of the world.Every human being that exsists will be effected by the decisions that are made in the United States.It is not just the exsisting issues that need to be resolved,it is the shear number of issues that will happen in the very near future,from civil unrest in the middle east,to the economy of Greece and the rest of Europe,to natural disasters that happen on a daily basis around the world.I do believe that we are still picking up the pieces and feeling the aftershocks of the Bush administration.I do think that the American economy and the middle east horror story that exsists today was caused and magnified by Bush and his administration,and Obama was finished before he began,trying to clean up what was left behind,and say what you will Bush left one hell of a messy living room in the White House when he departed.My support on the Obama side is I think Obama did as good a job as anyone in the world could possibly have accomplished,considering what had to be dealt with.The situation in the middle east would not be nearly as volitile as it is today if Bush had made different decisions.

My point is this.I want to see the United States be able to return and flourish as they did.My hopes being that the President they chose whether it be Romney or Obama be the right choice for the future of there great country.I am not in any way trying to raise hackles on anyone with this subject matter of who is the better political party or whom is the better man to be President.

Your last post was certainly worth commenting on, John R., as was the previous one by Nefer. I thank John for the heartfelt wishes on the outcome of our election. There are differing opinions in this country, just as there would be between a Canadian from Quebec and one from Prince George, BC. (where some dear friends of mine live.) My canadian friends suffered through the jokes i made about your esteemed leader, Pierre Trudeau, back in the '70's. In my opinion he came close to ruining your country. At the time, however, we had an equally bad president, Jimmy Carter, so I had to watch my criticisms. Carter, by the way was another Democrat stooge, groomed and programmed by the liberal elitists. He did a lot of damage, and we are still suffering from much of it today. In my lifetime I never dreamed the American people would ever be dumb enough to elect another president as bad as Carter. I was wrong. Obama is much, much worse. I have faith in another 3 weeks we be rid of the scoundrel.

Today in the United States we have a mere puppet who cannot think for himself, but is, rather, the stooge for a very evil and destructive undercurrent in our country. To answer Nefer: Obama has absolutely no substantive record to run on, nor does he have a plan for the future. He has refused to work in a bi-partisan nature with congress and has totally polarized our country. Obama's handlers main defenses are what they are best at: Obfuscation. They manufacture smoke screens like "womens' rights are threatened" and claim the republicans will take away their contraceptive devices and take away their rights to have free, goverment paid-for abortions on demand. They have tried to drive wedges between the wealthy and poor, between black and white, between hispanic and white, between men and women, between the young people and the elderly, and on and on. When you don't have any accomplishments, the only thing you can do is try to defame and tear down your opponent.

In a word - Divide and conquer, hey Bayside???

The Second Presidental Debate tonight,town hall forum style,where as such Obama and Romney answer questions from the American public in a town hall forum style meeting,the chosen audience is 80 undecided voters from all walks of life in the USA.It will not be like the first head to head debate where Romney made mince meat pie out of Obama,and I think the outcome will be more neutral than the first debate.The debate I am most looking forward to is the third Presidental debate in two weeks where the focus will be foreign policy - that should be the Mother of all debates,I can only imagine the defensive stand Obama will have to take on the Benghazi,Libia incident.A lot of pressure for Barack Obama and a big oppurtunity for Romney to bolster his position.

Point is - make sure to watch it on your television sets tonight,remember the swing in the polls from the first debate.

annagram wrote:And as far as Romney being against women's rights, where on earth do you get such a ridiculous idea?

Saw this posted after the binders of women debacle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=e ... nomobile=1

Nefer: We are battling for the future of our country down here in the old US of A. Like I stated in my last post, Obama has no record to run on and absolutely no plan for the future. He plans to just keep borrowing money from China to pay for his socialistic programs (no matter how much Matbow would contradict my using this term. There is little difference between socialism and running a welfare state where the majority of the people expect the government to support them). If he is re-elected we will have a 20 trillion deficit in another four years. Absolutely unsustainable. The US media is in the man's back pocket. Obama attacks character flaws he sees in Romney so people of your persuasion will keep your eye on the hole and not the donut.
Just consider the possibility of China deciding to take over Canada in the next few years -- which, with the way they are flooding into BC is a distinct possibility. Without the defense umbrella the US provides for you, Canada would bankrupt itself trying to finance a military that could fend off such a takeover. And here all you think about is the false propaganda about Romney closing down the drug stores and taking away a woman's rights to contraception. Hogwash, no matter what kind of liberal TV programs you can cite.

bayside wrote:Just consider the possibility of China deciding to take over Canada in the next few years -- which, with the way they are flooding into BC is a distinct possibility.

As far as I know Canada welcomes foreign investment; we have great trade links with China and I've never heard of this being a problem.

bayside wrote:Without the defense umbrella the US provides for you, Canada would bankrupt itself trying to finance a military that could fend off such a takeover.

Seriously? That sounds really offensive; are people worried about Indians coming from South Asia as well? Vancouver is an incredibly diverse city, and I have never read anything anywhere that suggests foreign investments mean Chinese people immigrating to this country are doing so in the guise of taking over the country. If you have please provide a link, as I have.

bayside wrote:taking away a woman's rights to contraception. Hogwash, no matter what kind of liberal TV programs you can cite.

No small thing. In fact, it's a pretty big damn deal. That isn't 'liberalism' that's human rights. Which should not be political fodder in a country has advanced as yours. This is what happened in Canada when a private members bill came up to change abortion laws in this country. I'm proud to say objected to it, wrote to my fed. representative and voiced my opionion, and it was voted down.

Twenty-four years ago, Supreme Court Justice Wilson stated that governments in a democratic society must never interfere with a woman’s right to choose:
“The decision whether or not to terminate a pregnancy is essentially a moral decision and in a free and democratic society the conscience of the individual must be paramount to that of the state.” – Supreme Court Justice Wilson
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/198 ... lii90.html

And by the way, we have a Conservative government right now. There's no way this bill would have been passed, even with PM Harper in the hot seat.

I'm going to bow out of this discussion now; we clearly have opposing views on women's right & are not something we can agree on.

Alright fellas - calm it down pls, this is not a political site, it is essentially an apolitical site - it's OK to report on what the pollies are saying but best not to say whether you think they are right or wrong or why!!

Nefer wrote:

annagram wrote:And as far as Romney being against women's rights, where on earth do you get such a ridiculous idea?

Saw this posted after the binders of women debacle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=e ... nomobile=1

Romney meant that he had binders full of resumes for women to work in his administration when he was governor of Massachusetts.

tedd wrote:Alright fellas - calm it down pls, this is not a political site, it is essentially an apolitical site - it's OK to report on what the pollies are saying but best not to say whether you think they are right or wrong or why!!

Wilbur needs to write a new book - a good one this time so we have something besides politics to talk about. or we ought to heed john rogers grandmother and not talk about politics or religion.

It is official this is my final post to this thread.My Grandmother was 100% correct do not talk politics or religion.By no means did I intend to ignite the passions and convictions of each individual who participated in this subject,my interest in current events is very intense and I have been commited to trying to understand the ways of the world since the assassination of John F Kennedy in the 60s,and the incident in the Bay of Pigs in Cuba,we were on the brink of Armageddan at that moment in time,and that is a fact not a fantasy,for real,the button nearly got pushed.

Final Comments
#1 - do not miss the 3rd Presidental debate on foreign policy in a few days - please watch it,the challenges ahead are terrifying,Syria being at the forefront.
#2 - What I did learn from this thread however is how passionate individuals are to the issues that are important to them.I think the reactions of all whom participated is a good example and a barometer for how the rest of the world perceives the outcome of the election.
#3 - The biggest shock for me was how much the Media affects the outcome of this election - I was surprised in myself how the first debate shifted my thinking from Obama to Romney,it put a lot of doubt in my mind about my support to Obama.

johnrogers wrote:It is official this is my final post to this thread.My Grandmother was 100% correct do not talk politics or religion.By no means did I intend to ignite the passions and convictions of each individual who participated in this subject,my interest in current events is very intense and I have been commited to trying to understand the ways of the world since the assassination of John F Kennedy in the 60s,and the incident in the Bay of Pigs in Cuba,we were on the brink of Armageddan at that moment in time,and that is a fact not a fantasy,for real,the button nearly got pushed.

Final Comments
#1 - do not miss the 3rd Presidental debate on foreign policy in a few days - please watch it,the challenges ahead are terrifying,Syria being at the forefront.
#2 - What I did learn from this thread however is how passionate individuals are to the issues that are important to them.I think the reactions of all whom participated is a good example and a barometer for how the rest of the world perceives the outcome of the election.
#3 - The biggest shock for me was how much the Media affects the outcome of this election - I was surprised in myself how the first debate shifted my thinking from Obama to Romney,it put a lot of doubt in my mind about my support to Obama.

I echo Johns post and do hereby close this thread!