Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Discussion about Wilbur Smith's Egyptian series.

Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby AuroraWind » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:07 pm

It' s been a while since I last read the Egyptian novels, but all this reading your comments about "The quest" called up some memories of mine and a question.

Has anyone of you noticed that, while in "The River God" Taita is mostly a wise and learned man who makes it through his wisdom and knowledge, as he moves on he becomes some kind of a magician?
For instance, in "Warlock" (is it Warlock the one about Nefer and Mintaka? sorry but the titles are different in my language..) he fights against the wizard Ishtar. And then, again in "The quest" he uses magic, though I can't quote anything since I don't remember it clearly. But one thing I remember is that at the end he says something like "I do not wish for anything else, for I have the wisdom of age and the strenght of youth" or something like that. I mean, he never ages, which is at least unusual.

So what do you think of this turn in Taita's evolution? Do you think Wilbur contradicted himself or he simply wanted his character to grow in a different way? I feel a bit odd when I think that there might be a contradiction, because I doubt Wilbur wouldn't have noticed. But still, I wonder why I never found any explanation to Taita's changes.

Or maybe I just don't remember, but still, I feel quite certain about the fact that there never was an explanation.

What's your idea?
AuroraWind
Junior Member
Junior Member
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:05 pm
Currently Reading: 50 grandi idee di matematica

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby johnrogers » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:50 pm

Very good post and interesting as well.I can not completely recall all the facts in the egyptian series,and can not recall any particular incident that occured that spurned Taita from a mortal individual in to a wizard of sorts with magical powers.The final book in the series The Quest really did throw me for a loop I was not expecting the book to go in to the fantasy/magic genre of Taita as compared to the first three novels that were mostly historical by nature.

However I do have a personal viewpoint as why it did - I think Wilbur Smith contradicted himself to test a new genre of writing style for his fans,meaning I think he was testing the waters and trying to give his readers a sample of something different for a change - consider he has published about 35 novels and all of them based on history and adventure.The Quest is the only novel that really enters in to the realm of myth and magic something that WS fans are not acustomed to in any way and I am sure were not expecting.I would have preferred an historical conclusion to the egyptian series rather than the mystical conclusion.There are many whom feel the same as I do regarding the Quest.

However my point is I really do think WS was trying to reach his readers and give them something different in the writing of The Quest.

It did not work for me in fact I was dissapointed and long to read a 5th book in the egyptian series but more similar to River Gods :lol:
Learn to appreciate what you have and quit worrying about what you don't - Remember to think before you speak,people judge you by what you say about others
User avatar
johnrogers
Crazy Canuck
Crazy Canuck
 
Posts: 675
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: Comox,BC,Canada - on Vancouver Island
Currently Reading: Raven:Blood Eye giles kristian

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby AuroraWind » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:14 am

Yes, the fact that I couldn't recall any passage confirming Taita's transformation from man to wizard made me wonder whether Wilbur had contradicted himself.
I agree with you, he might have wanted to try something new, which is something I appreciate: it surely takes some courage to make a change instead of sticking to the usual stuff.

Anyway, personally I didn't like it: I didn't find it easy to believe, and, even though I tend to do the "suspension of disbelief", I find it harder when the world the characters are living in doesn't match. What I mean is: Wilbur wrote a mostly historical novel (the river god) and then he changed, but I'm still used to the historical world, not the magical one. The point is, magic came out of nowhere, without a solid support (there's even a contradiction!) so it is much harder to believe in it!
AuroraWind
Junior Member
Junior Member
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:05 pm
Currently Reading: 50 grandi idee di matematica

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby johnrogers » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:26 pm

We both completely agree with each other regarding the Quest,it is a pity it did not end in an historical fashion.Perhaps someone else in the forum can post to the question when exactly did Taita make the transition to transpose from a mortal being (eunuch slave) to a magical wizard - when,why,and where did it happen.

As well AuroraWind many in the forum agree with your opinion :lol:
Learn to appreciate what you have and quit worrying about what you don't - Remember to think before you speak,people judge you by what you say about others
User avatar
johnrogers
Crazy Canuck
Crazy Canuck
 
Posts: 675
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: Comox,BC,Canada - on Vancouver Island
Currently Reading: Raven:Blood Eye giles kristian

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby E-Hoog » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:02 am

It's been a while since I read the books, but I think Taita went into the desert at the end of River God after Lostris died. When he came back in Warlock he had been there for ages. I think it was mentioned in Warlock that he got all the mojo during that period.

Then, after Warlock there was again some wandering in the desert, but this time with, er, that bloke that went with him. Memnons friend. Then in The Quest it all spiralled out of control on the magic front. Which I dind't mind by the way. I only objected to the poorly written characters/plot etc. in that book.
User avatar
E-Hoog
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 4:54 am
Location: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Currently Reading: D-Day - Stephen Ambrose / Rage - Wilbur Smith

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby Nefer » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:38 am

Taita was always a scientist - always questioning and finding ways to solve problems. I think after he was unable to save Lostris from her cancer he began to look for other methods - coming into the whole magic thing.

Of course I'm not a fan of the Warlock Taita - he looses a lot of his personality when he takes on magic.
"If I ever ask anything of you it would be to please consider life with an open mind and respect the opinions and wishes of others as long as they bring no harm to you and as long as you bring no harm or corruption to others."
~ Jason Mraz
User avatar
Nefer
Geek in the Pink
Geek in the Pink
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:20 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby johnrogers » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:50 pm

:-k So for me the eternal question is why did Wilbur Smith first introduce us to Taita as a mortal being and then completely change his character to a mystical wizard - he started out the egyptian series as an historial adventure and ended it as a fantasy epic - WS has never done that in any other of his works :-k
Learn to appreciate what you have and quit worrying about what you don't - Remember to think before you speak,people judge you by what you say about others
User avatar
johnrogers
Crazy Canuck
Crazy Canuck
 
Posts: 675
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: Comox,BC,Canada - on Vancouver Island
Currently Reading: Raven:Blood Eye giles kristian

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby AuroraWind » Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:08 pm

Nefer wrote:Taita was always a scientist - always questioning and finding ways to solve problems. I think after he was unable to save Lostris from her cancer he began to look for other methods - coming into the whole magic thing.




Wow, I like your explanation! It makes sense to me. Though I do not like the wizard Taita, I would accept his change more easily if your reason were right!
AuroraWind
Junior Member
Junior Member
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:05 pm
Currently Reading: 50 grandi idee di matematica

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby Nefer » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:27 am

I'll try to rationalise Taita to my grave - he is one of my all time favourite fictional characters!
"If I ever ask anything of you it would be to please consider life with an open mind and respect the opinions and wishes of others as long as they bring no harm to you and as long as you bring no harm or corruption to others."
~ Jason Mraz
User avatar
Nefer
Geek in the Pink
Geek in the Pink
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:20 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby samvanzeeland » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:10 am

Old mate is right, it says he goes in the forests for years after lostris dies, he got in sync with his spiritual side until lostris came to him in a dream (spirit form) and told him nefer need him.

After he came out of the jungle he was more in touch with the environment around him and could tap into it's forces. As more strain was forced upon him he managed (was forced) to strengthen his gift to match the environment, in order to survive. He was some what helped a little by the dude who died swimming in the quick sand. His powers starting increasing in leaps, after he had that thing when he got the inner eye, and meeting the re-incarnation of lostris, fenn, who was extremely naturally gifted and she helped him realize the extent of his powers even more....

It was strange though because wilbur usually sticks to facts and the mystical side is always that, mystical not outright magic. It all does go together smoothly if you have a open mind about it but of course it is easy to understand why alot of people would not like that, he probably should have tried it in a new book rather then disappointing fans on a established series. But i on for one like it possibly better then the alternative would have been and hope there is another.

get on the GHRP -6 and MOD GRF and stay alive forever wilbur so you can write more books please
samvanzeeland
Junior Member
Junior Member
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:57 am

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby samvanzeeland » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:16 am

Nefer wrote:I'll try to rationalise Taita to my grave - he is one of my all time favourite fictional characters!


agreed, i wish there was a invading army or something as taita arrived, for one final battle for egypt with taita almost immortal and the strength of his youth and the wisdom and powers of his age, and to see meren a bit more in the book, before he went on the quest with fenn for the fountain of youth
samvanzeeland
Junior Member
Junior Member
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:57 am

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby Nefer » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:45 pm

samvanzeeland wrote:It was strange though because wilbur usually sticks to facts and the mystical side is always that, mystical not outright magic. ...he probably should have tried it in a new book rather then disappointing fans on a established series.


Yeah I agree, I would have been more open to the magic if we had a new character.
"If I ever ask anything of you it would be to please consider life with an open mind and respect the opinions and wishes of others as long as they bring no harm to you and as long as you bring no harm or corruption to others."
~ Jason Mraz
User avatar
Nefer
Geek in the Pink
Geek in the Pink
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:20 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby johnrogers » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:18 pm

Looks like one of my greatest wishes is about to come true and that is the 5th installment in the Egyptian series coming out at the end of the year.The buzz is it is a continuation of River God and Taita according to an article I read by Wilbur Smith and some information he has posted on his facebook page.What I will never completely understand is why Wilbur changed the main character Taita from wisdom as a specially gifted human eunuch slave but transformed him into this magical savant type of being.Or putting it this way why did the Egyptian series change direction from being historical story as in River God and end up being almost a fantasy novel as in the Quest.I need some closure one way or the other on the character Taita how in gods name will Wilbur conclude the Egyptian series and the character Taita it is driving me crazy.
My greatest hope is that the new book is equal to the masterpiece River God - I have my doubts and I still remain very confused about the how and whys of Taita.
Learn to appreciate what you have and quit worrying about what you don't - Remember to think before you speak,people judge you by what you say about others
User avatar
johnrogers
Crazy Canuck
Crazy Canuck
 
Posts: 675
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: Comox,BC,Canada - on Vancouver Island
Currently Reading: Raven:Blood Eye giles kristian

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby Nefer » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:37 am

My pet theory is Taita in the more recent books is WS himself. And he needs to write Taita as he needs to view himself. Virile, in charge of his manhood, able to take care of his young wife/mistress etc. There's loads of parallels.

I'm a bit sour on Taita right now, I'm re-reading RG and I can't get over what a pedophile Taita is. Urgh. How did I ever over look all those scenes?!
"If I ever ask anything of you it would be to please consider life with an open mind and respect the opinions and wishes of others as long as they bring no harm to you and as long as you bring no harm or corruption to others."
~ Jason Mraz
User avatar
Nefer
Geek in the Pink
Geek in the Pink
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:20 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby johnrogers » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:08 pm

Nefer wrote:My pet theory is Taita in the more recent books is WS himself. And he needs to write Taita as he needs to view himself. Virile, in charge of his manhood, able to take care of his young wife/mistress etc. There's loads of parallels.

I'm a bit sour on Taita right now, I'm re-reading RG and I can't get over what a pedophile Taita is. Urgh. How did I ever over look all those scenes?!

Funny thing even though it has been a few years since I read the series I have no recall of Taitas sexual fantasys,I must have overlooked that part of it when I was reading River God,Ehoog made a comment about the same thing in a recent post.Re reading the posts in this thread has shone some new light on the matter,and I think I would have a more open mind to the mystical transformation if Wilbur introduced the new mystical side of it to a complete new series or a standalone type.To finish the Egyptian series or change the direction of it half way thru was a complete mistake in my opinion.Again I have always been very unsettled about the character Taita ,he was so believable in River God I think Wilbur could have developed him in a much more powerful force in the series by just keeping him human.
Learn to appreciate what you have and quit worrying about what you don't - Remember to think before you speak,people judge you by what you say about others
User avatar
johnrogers
Crazy Canuck
Crazy Canuck
 
Posts: 675
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: Comox,BC,Canada - on Vancouver Island
Currently Reading: Raven:Blood Eye giles kristian

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby johnrogers » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:22 pm

johnrogers wrote:
Nefer wrote:My pet theory is Taita in the more recent books is WS himself. And he needs to write Taita as he needs to view himself. Virile, in charge of his manhood, able to take care of his young wife/mistress etc. There's loads of parallels.

I'm a bit sour on Taita right now, I'm re-reading RG and I can't get over what a pedophile Taita is. Urgh. How did I ever over look all those scenes?!

Funny thing even though it has been a few years since I read the series I have no recall of Taitas sexual fantasys,I must have overlooked that part of it when I was reading River God,Ehoog made a comment about the same thing in a recent post.Re reading the posts in this thread has shone some new light on the matter,and I think I would have a more open mind to the mystical transformation if Wilbur introduced the new mystical side of it to a complete new series or a standalone type.To finish the Egyptian series or change the direction of it half way thru was a complete mistake in my opinion.Again I have always been very unsettled about the character Taita ,he was so believable in River God I think Wilbur could have developed him in a much more powerful force in the series by just keeping him human.

Or as Jeff Whittam put it from an earlier post
Quote
"it was well past midnight before Taita fired up his V8 Chevy and headed for Cairo's sorid club land... :lol: "
Learn to appreciate what you have and quit worrying about what you don't - Remember to think before you speak,people judge you by what you say about others
User avatar
johnrogers
Crazy Canuck
Crazy Canuck
 
Posts: 675
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: Comox,BC,Canada - on Vancouver Island
Currently Reading: Raven:Blood Eye giles kristian

Re: Taita's development, from wisdom to magic

Postby Nefer » Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:19 pm

Hahahaha!
"If I ever ask anything of you it would be to please consider life with an open mind and respect the opinions and wishes of others as long as they bring no harm to you and as long as you bring no harm or corruption to others."
~ Jason Mraz
User avatar
Nefer
Geek in the Pink
Geek in the Pink
 
Posts: 1904
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:20 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC


Return to The Egyptians

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest